[02:53:49] ** njs has joined us [04:02:33] [connected at Thu Nov 3 04:02:33 2005] [04:02:33] <> *** Looking up your hostname... [04:02:33] <> *** Checking ident [04:02:33] <> *** Found your hostname [04:03:04] <> *** No identd (auth) response [04:03:04] <> *** Your host is brown.freenode.net[brown.freenode.net/6667], running version hyperion-1.0.2 [04:03:04] [I have joined #peak] [04:03:04] ** brown.freenode.net set the topic to PEAK mailing list and archives may experience outages due to Hurricane Wilma; please be patient [08:58:42] ** vlado has joined us [09:38:19] ** vlado has left IRC (Remote closed the connection) [11:24:08] * Moof seems to have some issues with a weird setup.py file [11:24:22] hmm [11:24:29] * Moof tries updatign setuptools [11:50:55] hmmm, it's an incoreectly defined file [12:05:45] ** pje has joined us [12:06:08] So what's an "incoreectly defined file", Moof? ;) [12:16:20] JJLee reckons 0.2.1a is greater than 0.2.1 and setuptools disagrees [12:17:33] I'm talking abotu the current svn versions of mechanize and ClientForm [12:29:09] ah [12:29:22] yeah, 0.2.1a < 0.2.1 [12:30:00] I'm sure he'll fix it if you tell him. [12:30:14] I only just got setuptools to handle the installation as far as you got. :) [12:30:34] with setuptools < 0.6a8dev, it doesn't even try to process the dependencies. :) [12:30:50] and the bugs I just fixed were ones he reported. [12:39:42] aaah [12:40:15] anyway, Itold him, and now I'm testing the New, Improved, ClientForm ;) [12:40:42] John really needs his own IRC channel for this stuff, though [12:43:56] heh [12:44:29] I keep watnigng to have impromptu discussions with hi about this stuff, email's too slow for me ;) [12:44:54] you can use this channel. Nobody else is. :) [12:45:27] * pje tries 'easy_install mechanize==dev' [12:45:36] looks like he hasn't committed a fix yet [12:47:30] nope [12:47:46] peak.mechanize? ;) [12:47:59] huh? [12:48:31] surely this is for taling abotu PEAK and related stuff. if I start askign him abotu obscure mechanize and clientForm stuff... [12:48:39] * Moof should learn to type [12:49:14] I just thought you were doing ongoing research on the readability of words with scrambled letters. :) [12:49:33] I hve hand-eye co-ordination issues [12:49:40] ironically enough, I'm a great speller ;) [12:49:46] * pje thinks briefly of the bad old days before easy_install [12:49:55] easy_install is great [12:50:08] Used to be that getting the development version of something like mechanize, that depends on three other packages, would be a day's adventure. [12:50:16] yeah [12:50:33] Of course, Subversion is the other essential bit. [12:51:18] * Moof hmmms [12:51:34] does easy_install cope wiht otrtoisesvn, or does it require svn.exe? [12:51:41] er [12:51:44] tortoisesvn [12:52:23] it expects to be able to os.system("svn checkout -q %s %s" % (url, filename)) [12:52:39] then that'll be a no [12:52:43] so if you make an 'svn.bat' that can translate that, you're golden. :) [12:53:01] tortoisesvn has a different command line syntax [12:53:14] well, surely it can take a URL and a filename? [12:53:20] source and destination, in other words. [12:53:28] (P.S. it's svn.cmd thses days. .bats are executed in dos compatibility mode) [12:53:48] * Moof reads the help file [12:53:52] yeah, yeah, whatever. You kids and your dang newfangled 32-bit operating systems.... [12:54:20] ;) [12:54:36] When I was agrowin', we had 8-bit operating systems and we *liked* 'em! Why, we could store 30K or more of data on a single cassette. [12:54:54] And process it in batches of as many as 255 bytes at a time! [12:55:13] * pje turns "gramps mode" OFF [12:55:36] cassette? I had to get all my progrmmes on ROM or type them in every time [12:56:12] come to think of it, my current mobile phone is more powerful then my first three, possibly 4 computers. [12:56:51] and yet, it probably runs bloated enough programs that the performance and resolution are probably the same. :) [12:57:17] *cough* Java *cough* [12:57:43] heh. I try not to run java apps on this one. J2ME programmers don't program for palmOS [12:57:58] ah, ok. :) [12:58:18] shame pippy dies a death [12:58:21] er [12:58:21] died [12:58:32] Anyway, if you come up with a hack to use tortoise, feel free to send it to me for addition to the easyinstall docs [12:58:58] PyPy plans to target small platforms. [12:59:02] oooh [12:59:19] http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/release-0.8.0.html [12:59:31] looks like the latest tortoisesvn has an svn.exe with a subset of svn commands in it [12:59:48] "Our goals are to target a large variety of platforms, small and large, by providing a compilation toolsuite that can produce custom Python versions. Platform, Memory and Threading models are to become aspects of the translation process - as opposed to encoding low level details into a language implementation itself." [13:00:56] PyPy is a bit beyond me. I don't quite understand how language interpreter can host itself. [13:02:29] It doesn't host itself, it hosts a copy of itself. [13:02:46] i.e., you write a Python interpreter in Python and run it on the existing Python interpreter. [13:03:09] Then, you build compilation tools that can translate Python to C. [13:03:13] aaaaah [13:03:26] And then you use those tools (running in CPython), to translate the interpreter to C [13:03:33] And now you have your own CPython. [13:03:44] I C [13:03:53] Which is now down to only 10X slower than the original CPython. [13:03:57] that makes much more sense [13:04:06] (vs. running it in Python, where it's like 2000X slower) [13:04:10] heh [13:04:37] 10X slower is pretty good, considering it's written in Python. [13:04:43] that's pretty good. I read that statistic on blog the other day (possibly yours) [13:04:58] So, their next stage is JIT optimizations, to bring that number down some more. [13:05:13] If they get it to be at least roughly as fast as the original CPython, we're totally golden. [13:05:28] Because then we can experiment with any kind of translation we want, any new language additions we want... [13:05:34] and do it all in Python, not C. [13:05:42] I take it that eventually this can be used to replace things like pyrex, too [13:06:04] Yeah, it has C-interfacing stuff now. [13:06:10] Just not that user-friendly [13:06:29] well, it sounds like a great idea [13:06:31] I imagine somebody could write a ctypes translator that would take code written to use ctypes, and convert that to actual C. [13:06:43] But I don't know if anybody currently plans to or not. [13:07:20] incidentally, it appears the first problem of tortoisesvn compatibility is tht tortoisesvn doesn't install itself in the PATH. so we'd need to find the bugger, which means looking in the registry, which means ctypes or pywin32. [13:07:49] or just writing an svn.cmd file and sticking it on the PATH. :) [13:08:01] Note that I did say I'd add it to the *docs*, not the program. :) [13:08:05] that's not a portable solution [13:08:16] huh? [13:08:29] what do you mean by "portable"? Isn't tortoise windows-only? [13:08:39] portabel between instllatiosn of windows [13:09:34] my colleague over there <----- has tortoisesvn in C:\Archivos de Programa\TortoiseSVN mine's in D:\Program Files\TortoiseSVN [13:10:52] %PROGRAMFILES%\TortoiseSVN [13:11:03] so each user would have to modify his own svn.cmd to suit him. hardly "easy" [13:11:10] standard evironment variable [13:11:17] true [13:11:40] * Moof looks at svn support in setuptools [13:12:02] setuptools.package_index, line 482 [13:12:03] os.system("svn checkout -q %s %s" % (url, filename)) [13:12:22] that's the only bit that needs the svn command; everything else uses the .svn files. [13:12:28] ok [13:12:55] is filename relative or absolute? [13:14:17] it's absolute if it's a tmpdir generated by easy_install [13:14:51] * pje checks if that's the only way the tmpdir gets set [13:15:15] Technically, I suppose mkdtemp could create a relative filename, if that's how TMP/TMPDIR/whatever are set [13:16:05] an example url and filename: [13:16:06] Doing subversion checkout from http://codespeak.net/svn/wwwsearch/mechanize/trunk to c:\docume~1\pje-2\locals~1\temp\easy_install-snv-6m\trunk [13:17:03] then svn.cmd is probably somethign along the lines of %PROGRAMFILES%\TortoiseSVN\bin\TortoiseProc.exe /command:checkout /url:%1 /path:%2 [13:17:09] hmmm [13:17:28] %3 and %4 [13:17:35] because there's a "checkout -q" first [13:17:51] add /notempfile and /closeonend:3 to that [13:18:19] * Moof creates an svn.cmd and tries it out [13:20:18] got a handy svn url I can try? [13:20:33] see above. :) [13:24:59] hmm [13:25:16] it seems to still pop up a dialogue to confirm whether I want to check out [13:27:42] ok [13:27:44] guess you need another option somewhere [13:27:46] it does the checkout [13:27:56] error: c:\docume~1\moof\locals~1\temp\easy_install-kjetmx\.svn\dir-prop-base: Pe [13:27:56] rmission denied [13:28:25] (when oh when will MS get out a decent terminl window) [13:29:04] is that a message from easy_install? [13:29:14] yes [13:29:27] if so, you need to 'easy_install setuptools==dev' to upgrade to the version with the fix for removing checked-out read-only files on Windows [13:31:13] there we have a chicken and egg situation ;) [13:31:33] well, you're gonna have to clean up your temporary directories anyway. [13:31:51] one more ain't a big deal. [13:31:54] ah, but I just tried doing the same thing again and got the same error [13:32:10] hm. [13:32:16] perhaps this is a different problem. [13:32:23] is there a debug switch I can use to see what it's doing? [13:32:23] specific to TortoiseSVN [13:32:33] easy_install -vv [13:32:38] will give lots of output [13:33:19] I've got a meeting in a few minutes, gotta run for now. Go ahead and post what you find out, I'll be back in here in an hour or so. [13:33:31] Doing subversion checkout from http://svn.python.org/projects/sandbox/trunk/setu [13:33:31] ptools/ to c:\docume~1\moof\locals~1\temp\easy_install-5se4dl\setuptools [13:33:31] Processing setuptools [13:33:31] error: c:\docume~1\moof\locals~1\temp\easy_install-5se4dl\.svn\dir-wcprops: Perm [13:33:32] ission denied [13:33:41] is the -vv output [13:34:38] which is interesting as I can read it fromt he command line [13:35:32] though I can't delete it [13:39:49] * Moof goes home via shopping [14:13:21] ** pje_ has joined us [14:30:41] ** pje has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [14:30:44] ** pje has joined us [14:34:11] ** pje__ has joined us [14:45:54] ** pje_ has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [14:46:09] ** pje_ has joined us [14:52:22] ** pje has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [15:02:01] ** pje__ has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [15:20:27] ** pje__ has joined us [15:38:43] ** pje_ has left IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) [15:56:02] ** Maniac has joined us [16:08:20] ** pje_ has joined us [16:11:21] ** pje has joined us [16:11:24] ** pje__ has left IRC (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [16:24:22] ** pje_ has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [17:00:08] hi pje [17:00:16] 'lo [17:01:05] been a while [17:01:11] you survived wilma ok ? [17:01:14] yep [17:01:19] house too ? [17:01:27] mostly. [17:02:18] see http://dirtsimple.org/2005/10/stars-i-dont-know.html for details. :) [17:04:16] i read your blog but sometimes miss a post or two. [17:04:21] home time ! [17:04:32] ** Maniac has left IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050929]") [17:13:09] Moof, try setting DISTUTILS_DEBUG=yes and rerun [17:13:33] that should give a full traceback for the error message [17:14:44] (and then email it to me, and I'll see if I can figure out how to fix it) [20:00:39] ** pje has left IRC ("Client exiting") [22:10:55] ** njs has left IRC (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [22:14:28] ** njs has joined us [22:17:19] ** njs has left IRC (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [22:41:07] {global notice} Hi all! one of our sponsors is doing some router maintenence, this is scheduled maintenence. In the process, I'm going to upgrade one of the main rotation servers. this won't effect anyone, since the server has already dropped it's users. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode! [22:44:22] ** njs has joined us [22:53:36] ** njs has left IRC (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [22:53:48] ** njs has joined us