[00:13:20] lyrrad is now known as jibot [00:13:22] jibot is now known as lyrrad [00:17:42] * lyrrad slaps Maniac_ [02:51:55] morning [04:01:57] ** vlado has left IRC ("Leaving") [04:44:58] jack-e|away is now known as jack-e [04:45:00] morning [06:08:00] ** cprov has joined us [06:21:53] ** vlado has joined us [07:05:39] ** gbay has joined us [07:17:38] ** gbay has left IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) [07:18:36] ** gbay has joined us [07:25:59] ** hazmat has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [07:41:43] ** hazmat has joined us [07:44:43] ** gbay has left IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) [08:31:18] morning [10:28:18] ** vlado has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [10:29:45] ** vlado has joined us [10:36:42] lyrrad == maniac ? [11:18:59] Maniac_ is now known as Maniac [11:57:31] ** gpciceri has joined us [12:10:08] ** gpciceri has left IRC ("Client exiting") [12:45:36] ** vlado has left IRC ("Leaving") [15:36:41] ** hazmat has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [16:00:11] <_jpl_> Hi #peak [16:00:31] <_jpl_> Anyone around? [16:00:50] jup [16:01:01] hey john :) [16:01:02] <_jpl_> hey U. [16:01:26] <_jpl_> got any pet ants yet? :) [16:02:37] nope .. [16:02:54] <_jpl_> Did you have a good vacation? [16:03:11] yeah .. i really enjoyed travelling in thailand again .. [16:03:36] <_jpl_> Were you there for the whole month? [16:04:15] i traveled in the north for about 10 days, then i got to laos for another 10 days and finally i spent 10 days on a small island close to ranong [16:04:49] <_jpl_> nice [16:04:53] <_jpl_> Did you see the Plain of Jars? [16:05:08] no, where is it ? [16:06:22] <_jpl_> It's in Laos [16:06:54] i travelled there only in the very north (xieng kok, muang sing, luang namtha, luang prabang) [16:07:24] it was fairly cold and i needed some sun, so i changed my route to get to the island .. [16:07:45] i'ld like to get back to laos, but then only with a nice motorbike - busriding really sucks in laos imho [16:07:45] <_jpl_> google on plain of jars, it's pretty interesting [16:09:18] <_jpl_> Did you have any communication problems? [16:10:04] hmm .. my travelguide gave i nice basic vocabulary .. everything else with hand/foot and a bit of english ;-) [16:10:41] <_jpl_> das ist gut :) [16:10:51] yup [16:11:21] <_jpl_> I'd like to take a month off so I can get back to India [16:12:02] how often have you been there ? [16:14:07] <_jpl_> only once so far, but I have 'adopted' family there [16:14:17] ah, ok [16:17:06] <_jpl_> So I've been having difficulties getting a co-worker into PEAK. I've shown him numerous examples, have pair-programmed with him several times, and even rewrote a small program he was working on to use PEAK, but he still doesn't "get it". [16:18:11] <_jpl_> He seems to be hung up on the binding syntax for some reason. He looks at 'class X: foo=binding.Make(whatever)' and can't (or won't) get over the fact that it doesn't do what he's used to from Python. [16:18:16] hm .. my coworker is currently trying to get into it again .. [16:18:55] <_jpl_> So I'm thinking about writing a detailed binding tutorial which would compare/contrast standard Python with PEAK. [16:19:09] that would be really nice to have :) [16:21:30] i'm playing around abit with ian bickings formencode package to use it for form-generation and validation (at least till there will be some "real" solution) [16:22:01] <_jpl_> Only, I thought that something like 'class X:\n x=1' would make X.x a class variable, which would affect all subclasses of X... [16:23:27] ? [16:23:30] <_jpl_> So that 'x = X(); x1 = X(); x.x=10; x1.x==10' would be true, but it isn't. [16:24:02] right .. a class variable is copied into the instance dict when it's altered [16:24:19] that is not true for dicts/lists cause you dont alter the object but add/append stuff within it [16:24:57] <_jpl_> yeah, that's right [16:25:48] and that's how binding's cache mechanism works [16:25:57] <_jpl_> So with 'class X:\n x=[]' this would be true: 'x=X(); x1=X(); x.x.append(10); x1.x==[1]' [16:26:05] <_jpl_> er [16:26:10] <_jpl_> x1.x==[10] [16:26:31] right [16:29:44] <_jpl_> So I wanted to present an overview of that behavior and discuss how binding differs. I keep telling my co-worker to trust that it *does* create instance variables, but he seems skeptical, so I tell him about the metaclass, but he doesn't want to delve that far into it. [16:30:01] hehe [16:30:26] <_jpl_> It's frustrating, so I thought maybe showing detailed examples might help him and others. [16:33:45] <_jpl_> I can't really understand what the problem is, though. When I first got into PEAK I learned that instance variables are created and moved on to more interesting things. I didn't worry much about how it worked, but maybe others will get caught up on this as well... [16:35:16] i dont' know how it works, just that it works :) [16:35:18] hi #peak [16:35:22] heya [16:35:30] <_jpl_> Hi M [16:36:33] i will be known as lyrrad soon i think [16:36:38] fyi [16:36:46] Maniac makes it look like i'm crazy :P [16:37:20] <_jpl_> I think I'll be going to PyCon. pje might be there, and it would be good to meet various Pythonistas, plus my family in DC has been wondering for years when I'd come visit next. :) [16:37:36] <_jpl_> I always assumed you were trying to tell us something about yourself. :) [16:37:38] when will it happen ? [16:38:25] 24th march ++ [16:38:53] nope .. i won't be there .. that's to far for me as i've been on holiday shortly ;-) [16:38:57] * Maniac is not pythonic enough to pycon [18:25:29] I'll be at PyCon [18:25:36] I'm speaking actually [18:40:15] <_jpl_> Looks like you're up against Guido, Bob [18:40:53] has he posted to python-dev on the issue yet? [18:41:21] <_jpl_> Issue? [18:41:26] "up against guido" ? [18:41:39] you mean the little patch that he -1'ed, or what? [18:41:47] <_jpl_> I meant you and Guido are speaking at the same time, so you'll be competing with him for audience. [18:41:52] oh [18:42:03] I thought it was some web crap at the same time as me [18:42:08] did they flip the schedule around? [18:42:33] <_jpl_> Don't know, this is the first I've looked at it. [18:42:38] no [18:42:45] I'm up against education stuff now [18:42:48] they DID move me [18:42:49] <_jpl_> He's giving a 30 min talk on 'Karel the Robot Meets Python' [18:42:53] no he's not [18:43:05] <_jpl_> oh shit, you're right [18:43:05] GvR = guido van robot [18:43:11] it's a turtle clone or something [18:43:19] <_jpl_> got it [18:43:25] previously I was at the 11-12am slot [18:43:34] I think [18:43:54] they moved both me and david ascher forward [18:44:16] * _jpl_ nods [19:07:51] have a nice weekend [19:08:23] ** jack-e has left IRC (Remote closed the connection) [20:55:43] ** pje has joined us [20:55:47] Hey. [20:59:25] ** hazmat has joined us [21:00:26] Hola. [21:16:07] ** pje has left IRC ("Client exiting") [21:28:36] ** hazmat has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [21:38:34] ** hazmat has joined us [21:54:53] etrepum, what's your topic at pycon? [22:10:22] ** hazmat has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [22:23:12] ** _jpl_ has left IRC ("Leaving") [22:55:16] ** hazmat has joined us