[00:01:28] rowr just spent hours working on something until i discovered it was a bug in the twisted dict protocol... [01:21:39] ** gpciceri has joined us [02:39:20] ** rdmurray has joined us [02:39:20] ** _jpl_ has joined us [02:39:20] ** Maniac has joined us [02:39:20] ** jack-e|office has joined us [04:23:50] ** vlado_ has joined us [04:24:00] morning [06:19:21] ** vlado_ has joined us [08:24:18] ** vlado_ has joined us [10:51:50] ** gpciceri has joined us [13:57:00] ** vlado has joined us [14:07:55] * vlado is away, somewhere far beyond... (l!on)(p!off) [cRk/bx] [14:25:05] <_jpl_> greetings [15:02:28] greets [15:57:50] * Maniac dances around the channel [16:20:44] <_jpl_> he's a maniac, maaaniac on the floor [16:45:25] * Maniac dances like he's never danced b4 [19:24:44] ** hazmat has joined us [20:14:59] ** rdmurray has joined us [21:55:28] Man, it can be *really* hard to figure out where a method/attribute comes from in PEAK. [22:46:23] <_jpl_> Ha, that's true, especially with all the metaclasses. [22:48:23] <_jpl_> Even more fun is decoding tracebacks in PEAK apps. [23:06:11] grep.... [23:18:23] grep was of limited help. I was looking for how 'address' got defined on an SQLConnection. I still don't know, though I finally figured out that it happens in naming. [23:18:53] somewhere [23:34:06] ** vlado__ has joined us [23:41:46] ** gem_cat has joined us [23:43:16] anyone feeling talkative - i have been reading about pattern programming [23:43:22] <_jpl_> Sure [23:43:54] i think there needs to be a python uml tool [23:44:49] there are a lot of projects that seem headed in that direction [23:45:02] Isn't that one of the things in PEAK? [23:45:38] * rdmurray doesn't really understand UML all that well. [23:45:39] i think it is in the proposal but have not found specifics [23:45:41] <_jpl_> PEAK can work with UML, but I don't know anymore than that. [23:46:17] afak the opperative is 'consistant' with PEAK [23:46:30] My understanding is that PEAK can take a UML model and turn it into a 'peak.model' model. But I have no idea how that works or how implemented it is. [23:47:26] that is really great but - as i said there needs to be a pythonic tool to make uml [23:47:38] <_jpl_> I looked into doing that a couple of months ago, but never had enough time to figure it out how to use it. [23:48:28] <_jpl_> gem_cat: Send e-mail to the mailing list. Phillip Eby, the genius behind PEAK, will provide a 10 page thoughtful reply. (seriously) [23:48:40] have you looked athttp://www.objectsbydesign.com/ [23:49:05] um http://www.objectsbydesign.com/ [23:49:08] Why do you need a python tool to *create* UML? Isn't that basically a GUI issue? [23:49:38] Although actually I'd prefer a non-GUI method, so maybe I'd like a python tool for doing it :) [23:49:49] But I'm not sure why I'd care what the tool was written in. [23:50:16] is a philosophical point having to do with the eons on infinity rdmurray - and yes gui is fractional [23:51:17] Weird. I understand all the words in that sentence, but I can't make heads or tails out of it. I think I know even less about UML than I thought. [23:51:41] anyway the potential is there - i have been watching the pycad project in particular [23:53:13] for uml i have an excellent book by Craig Larman: _Applying UML and Patterns_ [23:53:35] <_jpl_> Yes [23:54:33] Is it just me, or is www.python.org not responding? [23:54:44] for patterns the book _Python Programming Patterns_ by Christopher [23:55:43] <_jpl_> _Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture_ by Martin Fowler is a must-read. [23:56:14] <_jpl_> The recent _Enterprise Integration Patterns_ is also great if you're interested in messaging (a la JMS). [23:57:19] I do not have the Fowler book but have considered getting it [23:58:30] i want to spend some time learning the process [23:58:55] (which is to say my understanding is rudamentary )