[01:35:32] ** bitmvnch has left IRC ()
[04:02:55] [connected at Fri Jun  9 04:02:55 2006]
[04:02:55] <> *** Looking up your hostname...
[04:02:55] <> *** Checking ident
[04:03:00] <> *** Found your hostname
[04:03:26] <> *** No identd (auth) response
[04:03:26] <> *** Your host is clarke.freenode.net[clarke.freenode.net/6667], running version hyperion-1.0.2
[04:03:26] [I have joined #peak]
[06:22:57] ** bitmvnch has joined us
[07:04:13] ** bitmvnch has left IRC ()
[08:21:17] ** bitmvnch has joined us
[09:27:36] ErikRose_ is now known as ErikRose
[11:13:25] ** ErikRose_ has joined us
[11:29:36] ** ErikRose has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:58:56] ** ErikRose__ has joined us
[12:04:47] ErikRose__ is now known as ErikRose
[12:05:19] ** pje has joined us
[12:16:11] ** ErikRose_ has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[12:41:58] ** coderanger has joined us
[12:42:29] ** cmlenz has joined us
[12:44:41] <cmlenz> so, is setuptools stuff considered OT here? ;-)
[12:45:17] <cmlenz> I'm brainstorming issues with the migration of Trac to setuptools
[12:48:05] <cmlenz> the issue being "site-wide" data that can be modified by the user… such as the default set of templates and wiki pages, a "site-wide" configuration file, etc
[12:48:48] <cmlenz> what we currently do is create a trac.siteconfig module at install time (overriding the distutils install command), where the defaults based on $prefix/share/trac are added
[12:50:18] <cmlenz> a site admin could basically change that file so that the site-wide "trac.ini" file is /etc/trac.ini instead of $prefix/share/trac/conf/trac.ini
[12:51:03] <cmlenz> doing this as package data is probably not going to cut it because it's actually intended to be user-customizable
[12:56:29] <cmlenz> pje, here?
[12:56:58] <pje> yes?  sorry
[12:57:06] <pje> thought the sounds of typing were on a different channel
[12:57:31] <cmlenz> heh
[12:57:44] <pje> I would suggest that what you want is something similar to a TG quickstart or Paster Create
[12:58:05] <pje> where you use package data as a template for an included tool to copy somewhere to create an instance
[12:58:18] <pje> or in this case, site.
[12:58:46] <cmlenz> the problem I think is that we have another layer between the defaults and the instance data
[12:58:55] <cmlenz> i.e. defaults -> site -> project
[12:59:24] <coderanger> cmlenz: It might be possible to make an initsite command for trac-admin
[12:59:48] <coderanger> Not quite as convinent though
[13:01:27] <cmlenz> that kinda adds the site as an actual entity... right now it's just defaults that are global to a trac installation
[13:03:37] <pje> I guess I'm confused as to what needs special handling, if all there is is a file that people can optionally create and edit?
[13:04:35] <coderanger> pje: The problem is that the location of the global files are currently stored in a file created at install time
[13:05:27] <coderanger> Since they are implicit defaults in all environments created later
[13:05:28] <pje> yes, that does sound like a problem.  :)
[13:05:29] <cmlenz> and also that continuing dumping stuff into $prefix/share isn't going to work well when more than one version of trac is installed
[13:06:19] <cmlenz> I'd love to get rid of the generated trac.siteconfig file, it always felt like a hack to me
[13:06:25] <pje> can't a specific environment point to its site, and a site point to its defaults?
[13:06:51] <pje> or more generally, have an "inherit settings from" feature?
[13:07:21] <pje> and if there is no "parent" config, you fall back to built-in defaults?
[13:07:50] <coderanger> That removes the niceness of the implicit defaults, though having to set one option in each child is better than nothing
[13:08:32] <cmlenz> I guess we'll have to do something like that, although it's more than I wanted to do on our setuptools branch :-P
[13:08:41] <pje> well, you could have a ~/.tracrc or something to set what the default parent is.
[13:08:52] <pje> or an environment variable.
[13:09:14] <coderanger> That doesn't work well for webapps
[13:09:33] <pje> this wouldn't be for the webapps, it'd be for the admin command that creates an instance.
[13:10:17] <cmlenz> bah, it'd probably be simpler to first add multi-project support ;-)
[13:10:20] <cmlenz> (not really, though)
[13:11:45] <pje> not sure why it's so hard to say "create-instance /path/to/defaults"
[13:12:14] <cmlenz> yeah
[13:12:24] <pje> if you want to retain administrator editability, why not:
[13:12:25] <pje> try:
[13:12:32] <pje>     from traccustomize import whatever
[13:12:37] <pje> except ImportError:
[13:12:41] <pje>     # do without
[13:13:09] <pje> and have people create a traccustomize module on sys.path if they want to configure any ring zero defaults.  :)
[13:13:27] <coderanger> That implies people will know a decent amount of Python
[13:13:54] <cmlenz> well, adding --defaults options to trac-admin initenv does sound like a decent option IMO
[13:14:21] <cmlenz> I'll experiment with that
[13:14:39] ** whit has joined us
[13:34:54] ** ErikRose_ has joined us
[13:49:58] ** whit has left IRC (Connection timed out)
[13:51:28] ** ErikRose has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:12:11] ** cmlenz has left IRC ()
[14:35:37] ** coderanger has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[16:20:38] ** cmlenz has joined us
[16:27:45] ErikRose_ is now known as ErikRose
[17:37:18] ** ErikRose has left IRC ()
[18:22:16] ** cmlenz has left IRC ()
[21:01:22] ** pje has left IRC ("Client exiting")
[22:55:33] ** ErikRose has joined us
[23:10:55] ** bitmvnch has left IRC ()
[23:37:43] ** ErikRose_ has joined us
[23:48:59] ** ErikRose_ has left IRC ()
[23:51:58] ** ErikRose has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))