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[05:00:12] <jack-e|away> morning
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[17:47:08] <pje> Hola.
[17:49:44] <pje> Hey Bob.  Any feedback on setuptools yet?
[19:41:26] <pje> Guess I'll have to take that as a no.  :)
[19:41:34] * pje waves
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[23:06:18] <sremington> Is there a list compiled somewhere of projects using PEAK?
[23:07:10] <Maniac> not really.
[23:07:18] <Maniac> there are not many public projects
[23:07:36] <sremington> Maniac: thanks... how about PyProtocols then?
[23:07:40] <Maniac> the creators of peak use it at their place of employment as far as i  know
[23:07:51] <Maniac> i use it peak in pretty much all my non-trivial python stuff
[23:07:51] <sremington> Maniac: gotcha
[23:08:04] <Maniac> there is peakplace.tigris.org which has one peak application
[23:08:27] <sremington> Maniac: thnx, I'll check it out
[23:08:33] <Maniac> use of pyprotocols may be more wide, however, i dont' know of any specific examples
[23:09:04] <Maniac> it's something you use and don't really advertise i think
[23:09:46] <Maniac> if you use adaption with python your two main choices are twisted components and pyprotocols i think
[23:09:58] <Maniac> and pyprotocols is superior
[23:10:01] <Maniac> :)
[23:10:47] <sremington> Maniac: I know there was discussion on the Twisted Mailing list of converting to PyProtocols but I'm not sure what the status of that is
[23:11:01] <Maniac> sremington, i dont' either. i think they will discuss at pycon
[23:11:16] <Maniac> most of that discussion is way above my head
[23:11:32] <Maniac> i use frameworks, i dont' design or debate them :)
[23:11:40] <sremington> Maniac: oh yeah... now that you say that I remember that
[23:12:02] <sremington> Maniac: LOL... I think you and I are about the same in that respect
[23:12:18] <Maniac> ha. i'm not a programmer. just a wannabe geek.
[23:12:29] <Maniac> :)
[23:13:00] <sremington> Maniac: I don't want to know why transitive adaption is or is not a good thing... I just want the stupid things to adapt
[23:13:13] <Maniac> i like to find people smarter than me and hang out and try and learn from them, pje (the primary creator of peak) is smarter than me....
[23:13:23] <Maniac> sremington, me either :)
[23:13:43] <Maniac> i didn't know what adaption was until a few months ago 
[23:14:15] <sremington> Maniac: I'm pretty sure that pje is a lot smarter than most of us
[23:15:05] <sremington> Maniac: I've highlighted and made marginal notes in the PEAK and PyProtocols manuals and I still feel stupid
[23:15:28] <sremington> Maniac: It's just a different mindset than I'm used to
[23:15:37] <Maniac> well, peak seems complicated, but once you grasp it, it's just different, not hard.
[23:15:56] <Maniac> and if i can use it, anyone can.
[23:16:07] <sremington> Maniac: ;)
[23:16:23] <Maniac> it's all about wiring up components
[23:16:55] <Maniac> ...and naming, and configuration
[23:17:03] <Maniac> :P~
[23:17:20] <Maniac> sremington, do you have a weblog?  (my newest addiction)
[23:17:31] <sremington> ...and events... and storage... and
[23:17:38] <Maniac> peak storage is cool
[23:17:44] <Maniac> i dont' understand events
[23:18:01] <sremington> Maniac: It's funny you should ask that... I was just looking for a blog tool today
[23:18:18] <Maniac> what were you looking for?
[23:18:35] <Maniac> python based ? 
[23:18:43] <Maniac> or just a blog tool?
[23:18:43] <sremington> Maniac: I have a personal website at http://sremington.zapto.org but it's pretty lame
[23:18:53] <Maniac> that's not bad
[23:19:22] <sremington> Maniac: yeah, Python based... I was looking at COREBlog
[23:19:23] <Maniac> http://randomthoughts.vandorp.ca/syncato/WK/blog
[23:19:33] <Maniac> COREblog is based on zope, but looks cool
[23:20:04] <Maniac> randomthoughts is my site
[23:20:15] <sremington> Maniac: hey... I've been to your blog before but I don't remember what I was looking at
[23:20:48] <Maniac> when you get your blog going let me know we can link each other :)
[23:21:08] * Maniac needs more googlejuice
[23:21:40] <Maniac> oh, family is home, have to go say hi
[23:23:04] <sremington> Maniac: ok, will do
[23:29:21] * Maniac is bakc
[23:29:23] <Maniac> er back
[23:31:14] <sremington> Maniac: what are you using for your blog?
[23:31:32] <Maniac> synato
[23:31:48] <Maniac> er syncato
[23:31:51] <Maniac> www.syncato.org
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[23:32:19] <sremington> Maniac: ah yes... I should have checked out the About page before I asked that
[23:32:21] <Maniac> it's cool. but you need to basically host it on something you have access too
[23:32:38] <Maniac> i had to compile most of the prereq's
[23:32:51] <Maniac> there are about 3 public installations
[23:33:08] <Maniac> you can't beat moveable type for ease and hosting i think
[23:33:13] <Maniac> where is your hosting?
[23:34:14] <Maniac> ah you have some gdesklets
[23:34:58] <sremington> Maniac: it's hosted on a server at the business I'm a partial owner of so I have as much access as I need
[23:35:05] <Maniac> ah
[23:35:16] <Maniac> syncato is xml/xpath/xsl-t based
[23:35:31] <Maniac> i find there's not much quality python offerings
[23:35:46] <Maniac> which is a little disappointing
[23:35:55] <Maniac> (for weblog software)
[23:36:23] <sremington> Maniac: that's a shame... I would think Python would be the perfect choice to develop a blog in
[23:36:28] <Maniac> me too
[23:36:40] <Maniac> as opposed to <cough>perl</cough>
[23:36:43] <Maniac> like MT
[23:36:56] <Maniac> the premier weblog software currently
[23:37:02] <sremington> Maniac: don't get me started on perl :-P
[23:37:17] <Maniac> i would have used MT but perl scared me off
[23:37:29] <Maniac> i thought i would never write a perl plugin
[23:37:53] <Maniac> pje needs to write a peak based weblog system
[23:37:56] * Maniac dreams
[23:38:27] <Maniac> what amazes me is how often someone checks my site with the feedvalidator
[23:38:31] <sremington> Maniac: :) maybe he'll read the IRC log and grant your wish
[23:38:36] <Maniac> 212.13.199.217 - - [12/Mar/2004:22:37:37 -0600] "GET /syncato/WK/blog?t=rss20 HTTP/1.0" 200 2886 "-" "FeedValidator/1.3
[23:38:40] <sremington> Maniac: what's that?
[23:38:54] <Maniac> feedvalidator.org valides atom and rss feeds
[23:39:10] <Maniac> i think pje is better things to do than write weblog software :)(
[23:39:12] <Maniac> :)
[23:39:19] <sremington> Maniac: ahh.. i see
[23:39:19] <Maniac> validates
[23:40:02] <sremington> Maniac: just tell him it's blog *framework* and maybe he'll bite
[23:40:10] <Maniac> :)
[23:40:22] <Maniac> he'll say. ok Maniac, go ahead and do it
[23:40:28] <sremington> ha ha
[23:40:32] <Maniac> i'll provide moreal support ....
[23:40:35] <Maniac> moral
[23:40:43] * Maniac thwaps his own hands (cant' type tonight)
[23:41:52] * sremington snickers at Maniac's kludgy fingers
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[23:42:53] <sremington> I would think that Gadfly would be a perfect backend for a Python based blogger... no other dependencies besides Python
[23:43:45] <Maniac> gadfly or txt files
[23:44:20] <Maniac> or in the case of syncato dbxml (with it's assorted pile`o`depencies(
[23:44:21] <Maniac> )
[23:59:20] <hazmat> an easy way to get dbxml is to use chandler's build system to get bdbxml
[23:59:37] <Maniac> hazmat, hmm. really?
[23:59:45] <Maniac> but then i get chandler at the end no?
[23:59:56] <hazmat> you can build portions piecemeal